PE Stamps Required

I am interested in getting a better understanding of when a PE stamp is required on a set of drawings.

Is this requirement enforced by the local authority, the state or some sort of a national electrical enforcement?

It's my understanding that a dwelling unit (single family) does not need a PE stamp for a permit. Do some special occupancies require a stamp while others don't (schools vs. health care)?

Is the requirement triggered by the size of the project or the type of project?

How can I get information on these requirements.

Cavie

Senior Member
Wireit said:

How can I get information on these requirements.


From your local building department.

bbaumer

Senior Member

Not sure where you live but in Indiana you can download a copy of the General Administrative Rules or GAR and it describes in detail when you need a "design professional", i.e. PE or registered architect.

Look at sections 12-6-3 Design Release Requirement through 12-6-9 Design professionals

Summary, most projects involving the public or employees have to be submitted for design release but not necessarily stamped. There are numerous exceptions to this.

Your job has to be "stamped" if it is greater than 30,000 cubic feet (yes, cubic not square) or involves fire protection or structural changes.

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member Location Lockport, IL Occupation Retired Electrical Engineer Wireit said:

Is this requirement enforced by the local authority, the state or some sort of a national electrical enforcement?

PE licenses are issued only by the States, not by local or national agencies. However, the requirements that a project be designed under the supervision of a PE and that the PE sign and seal the design documents can be established at any level of government. Private entities (e.g., the owner of a proposed new apartment or office building) may include such requirements, even if the various governmental agencies would not require them.

Wireit said:

It's my understanding that a dwelling unit (single family) does not need a PE stamp for a permit. Do some special occupancies require a stamp while others don't (schools vs. health care)?

I suspect that most single family dwelling units can be designed and built without the participation of an engineer (or an architect, for that matter). I believe that my state requires a PE seal, at the Plan Review stage, on designs for schools and hospitals. But this really is a local thing; all areas have their own rules.

Wireit said: Is the requirement triggered by the size of the project or the type of project? Type, certainly. Size, maybe. Again, it is a local thing.
Wireit said: How can I get information on these requirements. What Cavie said.

mdshunk

Senior Member

Just thought I should add that PE is happy to design and seal (or sometimes review and seal) a set of drawings whether or not somebody was requiring that seal or not. This can be handy for a contractor to help transfer some liability.

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member Location Lockport, IL Occupation Retired Electrical Engineer mdshunk said:

Just thought I should add that PE is happy to design and seal . . . a set of drawings whether or not somebody was requiring that seal or not.

Quite true. We?d be even happier to accept cash or verified checks in payment for the services.
mdshunk said: . . . (or sometimes review and seal) . . . .

No. Not at all. Never. Perish the thought. (I do hope you were kidding.)

That would be a clear violation of professional ethics, and often a violation of state law. Such actions could easily cost an engineer the PE license. When an engineer seals a document, it constitutes a certification that the work was performed by, or under the supervision of, that engineer. Reviewing work done by others and sealing the documents prepared by others is not an option. The closest we can come is to review the work done by others, write a report that describes the results of our review, and seal the report. The distinction is that the report was generated through the PE's own work, or though the work of others who were under the PE's supervision.

mdshunk

Senior Member
charlie b said:

No. Not at all. Never. Perish the thought. (I do hope you were kidding.)

That would be a clear violation of professional ethics, and often a violation of state law. Such actions could easily cost an engineer the PE license. When an engineer seals a document, it constitutes a certification that the work was performed by, or under the supervision of, that engineer. Reviewing work done by others and sealing the documents prepared by others is not an option. The closest we can come is to review the work done by others, write a report that describes the results of our review, and seal the report. The distinction is that the report was generated through the PE's own work, or though the work of others who were under the PE's supervision.

I thought that might get a rise out of someone, but I didn't expect anyone to act like this doesn't happen.

One recent example. the engineering was done by an out of state firm, and did bear the seal for that out of state PE. This didn't fly in my state, so a local PE reviewed the work with a couple minor changes and applied his mark.

I don't see this as being any different that cutting and pasting pre-made details from AUTOCAD or whatever into your own drawings.

Last edited: Apr 3, 2008

bbaumer

Senior Member
charlie b said:


Quite true. We?d be even happier to accept cash or verified checks in payment for the services.

No. Not at all. Never. Perish the thought. (I do hope you were kidding.)

That would be a clear violation of professional ethics, and often a violation of state law. Such actions could easily cost an engineer the PE license. When an engineer seals a document, it constitutes a certification that the work was performed by, or under the supervision of, that engineer. Reviewing work done by others and sealing the documents prepared by others is not an option. The closest we can come is to review the work done by others, write a report that describes the results of our review, and seal the report. The distinction is that the report was generated through the PE's own work, or though the work of others who were under the PE's supervision.

I recieved a letter from the State of Indiana about 4 years ago or so, as did all "design professionals" (PE's and RA's) clearly, very clearly, stating it is against the law to "sell your stamp", i.e. review another's design and stamp it. The letter even came with details from a court case on this very issue. I believe the Engineer caught doing this lost his license and was fined.

charlie b is 100% correct.